I’m kind of using my last post as a springboard into a new topic, but please, let’s keep the previous thread going, by all means…
I’ve heard from different media sources that some religious communities are experiencing a resurgence in interest in vowed membership among younger women (20’s). I may be risking a generalization here, but it seems I’ve heard that a lot of the growth is happening in new orders that have embraced a more traditional way of living religious life, a lifestyle similar to what many of my sisters lived in the 1950’s, prior to the Second Vatican Council.
I’ve also heard on occasion that some think that today’s young adults are looking for more in the way of absolute answers and that’s what draws them to the more traditional orders. It seems to me that this attempt at an explanation does justice neither to the young people seeking to serve God nor to ourselves as members of long-established congregations who have responded to Vatican II and reformed our congregations. If we can explain away our diminishment in the numbers of women coming to our congregations by dismissing the concerns of young adults as “not quite adult”, then we have no motivation to really take a good, hard look at ourselves and ask some hard questions.
Now I’m not saying that we (and I mean many congregations of women religious) are failing to grapple with some of these questions. I think we give it a good shot, AND I think we’ve become very comfortable with the way we’ve operated the last thirty years or so. I think it’s the human condition.
We talk about being “counter-cultural”, but just how counter-cultural can we afford to be when we are preoccupied with many things? Just a question…
The answer that seems to come to me in this moment is that it is up to the individual members of a congregation to answer God’s call the best way we can. That the main role of an “institution”, whether that be a congregation, or religious life, the Church, etc. is self-perpetuation. I like to think that we are fundamentally different than other institutions in this regard, and perhaps with a lower fatigue level I would think that, but when it comes right down to it, religious congregations are human organizations, and like Janet said in her comment on my last post, subject to the politics that are part of any group or organization (hopefully on a smaller scale).
Love to hear from some of you, whether you are from a congregation like mine, or a more traditional order, or someone who stands outside both and can lend a more objective perspective.
I come with the perspective of leaving an active religious order at the age of 25 before final vows in the early 70’s and have some reflections to share. I know that in my experience ongoing formation did not occur beyond 2 years of college at the juniorate. There were too many schools to fill up with teachers as sisters were leaving communities who were in periods of experimentation. In some communities, young sisters were not brought together to share experiences and learn how to integrate apostolate, prayer and community life. I believe that some dissatisfaction occurred due to being ill suited for teaching at certain levels or subjects and not having adequate preparation. There were many demands on young sisters to teach, take turns cooking, cleaning, and being active in the local parishes with religious education and choirs. I believe that some orders sacrificed their young sisters to fill the gaping holes in their apostolates. The piece written by the Pope recently saying that being is more important than doing in active orders is appropriate because at the time doing was more important than being just to keep the institution going. It was not a way of living I could embrace for my entire life and be happy and I knew it so I left.
What I think is true that the communities that have a common vision, a life deeply rooted in prayer and community living are thriving. Some communities came through that time of change re-energized and were able to make some shifts through collaboration. Maybe some of the old instititions just couldn’t refocus on being rather than doing. Now they have an aging population and not many prospects. Young people want to have a vision, a focus, a purpose, I believe. Living in an apartment with 2 or 3 other sisters without a chapel is not enough of a difference in lifestyle to make a radical change for them. Some contemplative orders are seeing some increases as well and some are coming from active orders. Well, that’s my two cents on the subject!
Anne
Footnote:
I also believe that there are many more opportunities for women to be of service to others beyond their immediate families. Perhaps some modern women embrace the vocation of marriage and children, work in service occupations, volunteer in the community and find time for contemplation.
I am a young married person. 22 years old. I came into the Church last year, and am very active with catholics my age, and I am actually beginning a new job this spring full time with a parish.
I just wanted to offer the perspective of a young person who has not a few friends discerning vocation to the religious life. Our perspective, as young catholics is this: authenticity. We want to be authentically catholic, 100% faithful to the Church, and 100% in love with Jesus Christ.
So why the are we as young people flocking to more traditional catholocism? I think its because we are afraid of what has happened in the world in regards to relativism and descent within the Church. Does that mean that we think that those who are not traditional (and understand how I am using the word traditional. i.e. not conservative or “Traditionalist”) are not authentic catholics? No, maybe in some cases, but in general, no. We see what has happened in the past 30-50 years in the world, and we fear that people lean more on their own truth than the Truth. Therefore, we look for something that has lasted, something that is traditional.
We don’t like catholic prayer groups with “zen” influences, we want rosary groups. The rosary is a sure thing.
We don’t want easier “rules,” we want to know that a mortal sin is a mortal sin.
We don’t want a wimpie Church, we want a Church militant. A Church ready to give its life while proclaiming the Gospel!
We don’t want centering prayer with vague eastern mysticism, we want contemplative prayer with carmelite mysticism.
We don’t want to form commitees to explore what Church teaching may mean, we want to profess as I did when confirmed: “I believe everything the Catholic Church teaches, proclaims, and believes to be revealed by God.”
Now, are all of those things in more “reformed” orders, perhaps. We don’t know, they’re still new, but we see the chaos around us from discenting catholics and we se the value in traditional catholicism. We know that certain forms of spirituality and certain devotional and liturgical norms have lasted, and are obviously blessed with many graces from God. We want to know God, we want to love Jesus, and we want to be authentic. We don’t want reforms that make us more like the world, we want reforms from sin and conversion to God.
I may be rambling, but I thought maybe a young person should chime in. I don’t know if this gives any kind insight to those outside my generation, but maybe it will..
Thanks, both of you, for your reflections…I’d like to respond more fully, and will a bit later.
In the meantime, allow me to offer a quote from, Perfectae Caritatis, Article #3. This was a decree from the Second Vatican Council. (My understanding is the only higher authority in the Roman Catholic Church than a Council would be a subsequent Council, which we haven’t had since Vatican II.) My guess is that what many religious institutes saw as responding to this decree, was seen by others as embracing relativism. Here’s the quote:
“The manner of living, praying and working should be suitably adapted everywhere, but especially in mission territories, to the modern physical and psychological circumstances of the members and also, as required by the nature of each institute, to the necessities of the apostolate, the demands of culture, and social and economic circumstances.”
No doubt, in the early experimentation, some groups and/or individuals may have gone a little too far. By the time I entered in the mid-80’s, it seems to me that things had settled considerably. Still, I realize that even after things reached equilibrium, there are many who think the equilibrium point is too far removed from the pre-Vatican II starting point.
I would have to agree that as a religious and a Catholic, I want to be 100% faithful to the Church, 100% (or 150% if possible) in love with Jesus. I think the differences lie in what it means to be faithful to the Church. Perhaps this is something we can dialogue about, but I really have to go home and get some sleep.
What do some of you other young Catholics think? Do you share youngcatholic’s view? Let’s keep talking!
Hi,
I am 26 and I was a candidate with a fairly large apostolic order. I left after two years (one in a discernment house and one year as a candidate). They are a pretty liberal group of sisters who are definitely social justice oriented.
We didn’t have a chapel. This is because they converted the chapel into a preschool. So we had a prayer room that barely fit all of us… usually one person had to sit on a floor. And if we had a guest we would have to meet in the dining room or other people would sit on the floor. I think there should be a chapel in convents and I REALLY loved when I visited convents with chapels… I love being able to go in the chapel to pray when I feel like it, but our chapel was converted. It was 3 sisters living in the house. The question I asked is how is religious life a different vocation? I could never understand how it was different than another vocation… and my formation minister could never explain how it was different either because I was supposed to figure it out myself because she said it was so obvious. (It wasn’t obvious and I still have no idea how it is different.)
After leaving the order, I now have more community (because I can be more involved at a parish), I have more prayer (because I have time to pray now), and my life is more balanced (I’m not over worked). In the order, we only prayed 3 times a week a shortened version of the Liturgy of the Hours which lasted 10 minutes… so together we communally prayed 30 minutes a week together (After I left, I pray for an hour at a young adult prayer group I am in and another hour in another prayer group I am in). More and more sisters in the order are wanting to live alone in apartments so the value for community is no longer there… and the leadership is allowing it so that really shows the value isn’t there!
I really like the thoughts on how 25 years ago when Anne entered things were so much about doing! Exactly!!!! That was how it was. The sisters had no balance. In general, they always put their work before community and prayer. It was a rare exception to find a sister who put community and prayer first. I remember many times we cancelled prayer because only one or two of us could be there at 7am. And if more than one person couldn’t be there, we would cancel prayer and I’m not sure why. I always thought where two or more are gathered.
I went to school full time and worked 20 hours a week. Then I had to volunteer with the sisters as a candidate. And be at prayer and dinner (even though the sisters often weren’t). Cook dinner sometimes. Do chores. Be at meetings for various sister things. Not to mention educational things like gatherings with others in formation and workshops the sisters wanted me to attend.
I was kept so busy as a candidate that I had no time to reflect… and I think there is a psychological factor of if you can’t think you won’t leave. I was lucky if I was given 30 minutes a day to pray and prayer was always the first thing they thought I should give up. I really think a minimum of 1 hour personal prayer a day should be something anyone does and now that I’m not in formation I do. I really was up by 7am and I wouldn’t go to bed until around 1am at the earliest (because after community stuff I had to do my school work).
I was also told not to hang out with certain friends. I made our leadership mad when I still hung out with one of my good friends. Their criteria was that if someone was inquiring about the order we could be friends. If they weren’t looking at the order, we couldn’t be friends. So they asked me not to be friends with certain people. Honestly, the inquirers weren’t healthy people. So they were isolating me. Even though they said it was good to have peer friends, their actions didn’t show that. It was basically a slow isolation process… my formation director told me that in novitiate I would have no peers (because no one was close to my age in formation). So the first time we met, my formation director asked me how I felt about not having friends for 2 years because novitiate is not the time to make friends (their novitiate was in a different state because their order does novitiate together).
I did find that the stories of the older sisters formation was very true of how they treated me even though the sisters told stories of how horrible formation was. Leadership had authority issues. And it was always about keeping the new members busy almost to the breaking point. Also, not the life I am called to. I longed for more contemplation… but I don’t want to join a contemplative order and be cloistered away.
I’m not called to a traditional order. I value praying Scripture so I wouldn’t feel called to say the rosary or spend and hour in Eucharistic Adoration everyday. And I don’t feel called to necessarily go to Mass everyday (and historically people never used to go to Mass everyday- that is a recent thing). I’m not saying those things are bad… I just don’t feel called to them.
But I do think a religious order community should be praying at least 5 times a week together (I can understand weekends are hard since many sisters work in parishes or want free time on the weekend like we all do after a hard day at work)- but at least once a day during the week minimum because religious life should be about prayerful life. I think sisters should live in community together (I would like to live with 8-10 women of different generations).
But I also think eating together should be a value during the week. If a religious order is never going to spend time together and never value community… then why are they religious sisters?
I also saw a lot of mental/emotional unhealthiness. I’m not sure if celibacy is unhealthy or what was unhealthy about it. Someone at my school did a study that said a high percentage of religious sisters are from homes that their parents abused alcohol. I’m not sure if that is true, but it wouldn’t surprise me. There were a few healthy sisters, but there were definitely a large number who had psychological issues even though everyone had to go through the psychologicals before entering. Even today I knew of women entering who have psychological issues such as panic attacks, OCD, depression, and abortion within a year of entering (just to name a few).
I saw many young women who came to orders looking for the mom or grandma they never had. The sisters are really good at acting like mom or grandma to young women. I have an awesome family so that wasn’t what I was looking for. It was really hard to be treated mutually and not like the kid. But a young adult should be transitioning into adulthood NOT staying a child. I was an adult who really struggled with telling sisters I wasn’t a child.
I really question what the order I was in thought obedience was. It often felt like the people in formation were treated as slaves. We weren’t allowed to think for ourselves or have an opinion especially in front of formation and leadership. They broke us down to nothing. I was mistreated. If a guy did this, it would be called psychological and emotional abuse. But it was ok that the order did this. I think the vow of obedience is something people need to be careful of! I did lose a big part of myself in the order and now I have to re-find my passion and joys… after leaving formation, I have to re-find who I am.
The other thing I saw was socially awkward people who were socially accepted in religious life. So vocation events were the highlight of their life because people were nice to them then. So inquiry became a social thing and not about the order.
And another problem is that there is a huge age gap in religious life. Maybe a few sisters in their 40s, some in their 50s, and most 60 and above. So most sisters are senior citizens. Sisters in the order I was in didn’t work with young adults so they didn’t understand young adults. They wanted me to act like I was 60. If I acted like a normal healthy young adult my age I was criticized because they didn’t understand how I acted was normal when I acted my age. So they wanted me to act old like them so there… the lack of energy and lack of passion and lack of vision was probably the thing that got to me the most and makes me glad I left!
Leaving the order, I still wonder… what makes religious life a separate vocation? I don’t think religious life is or should be more holy. I do believe all vocations are just as holy. But what makes it a separate vocation than the single life…. I saw nothing different.
This is just my experience of the order I was in. I would love to hear if other young adults have had a different experience. The young adults I have talked to from various orders had a very similar experience so I would love to hear of some good experiences!
Wow, ‘ex-candidate,’ thanks for sharing your experiences. I have an inkling that I may know who you are, but then again, your story could indeed be a more universal one that I yet realize. As one who is standing on the brink of entering (and I suspect in the same Order, if not the same congregation), ready to make that jump just as soon as I get the acceptance letter from my prioress, I found your insights quite valuable. I will surely be keeping them in mind during my own upcoming years of formation. What you said about losing yourself is also something I have learned I have to guard against. Here’s hoping RL is as good of a fit for me as I hope it will be–and that I don’t have to lose myself in the process to make it so. Again, thank you so much–all of you–for your responses!
I second the “wow”! To be honest, what ‘ex-candidate’ shared makes me squirm a bit, but that’s not such a bad thing. I think that sometimes we in religious life can get too comfortable with “business as usual” and it really helps to get some honest feedback from one coming from outside the system.
It sounds like the experiences you had are a bit more extreme than what I experienced when I entered at the age of 24. But I do recall feeling that there were different standards for novices and professed sisters. And that at times, I didn’t feel I was really treated as an adult…
I also want to acknowledge that there are some people who are not psychologically healthy in religious congregations….heck, I’ve done a lot of personal work in my own life, and alas, it’s part of my makeup to always be striving to be even more healthy as I discover new aspects of myself and my relationship to God and others.
However, I think we need to also acknowledge that the grass isn’t necessarily greener on the other side. I’ve run into plenty of psychologically unhealthy people who have never been in religious life. And so far, it has been my experience that having a deep sense of belonging in my congregation and feeling the love and support of my sisters has contributed greatly to my willingness to look at and address ways in which I haven’t been as healthy as I could be. So I’m pretty careful about suggesting any kind of cause and effect relationship between dysfunction and membership in a religious order. I think it really is different for different people.
What I really believe is that if I am genuinely called to this life, I will continue to be given the grace necessary to live it well. Does that mean I will never question our practices or remain silent in the face of injustice? Absolutely not! Not an easy place to be sometimes, but so far, it works for me…
Hi Natty,
Sorry I’m not from your order assuming the links on your page are to that order!
I’m not surprised that you know someone else who had the same experience as I did. I had 2 young adults in formation in my order who had the same experience. And I also know a number of young women from various orders who have had similar experiences. Everything I wrote was my experience, but I can say that other young women I’ve talked to have had similar experiences.
Sandy…I agree in all parts of life there are unhealthy people. I guess my question is would you marry someone who is unhealthy? You are living with that on a daily basis; where as in a job or in life you come in contact but can leave.
And why do they have new members take psychologicals if it means nothing… to me I was led to believe you had to pass the psychologicals to join so I was happy to know that others would be emotionally healthy that I would live in community with (that was what the order told me prior to entrance which basically was just one of many lies). Only when I was in community did I find out sisters and new members had psychological problems… some of which I consider pretty severe.
And my other feeling is that there are a lot more unhealthy individuals in religious life than in society… but I have no statistics to back that up… I’m just going on my observation. I really felt like there were only a few healthy sisters as I got to know them more closely. As I get to know my friends more or people at my church more, I don’t feel like that. But one of my friends who is a novice said something that made me think that maybe if I found the right order that unhealthy feeling wouldn’t be there. Like the joys would surpass even the unhealthy sisters. I’m not sure though… for me, not being respected and hearing so many other young adults feeling not respected makes me feel like religious isn’t healthy at least for young adults.
I do know some older women that I think it is a more healthy situation… largely because they are peers to the sisters so they are treated as adults.
After reading your comments, I can’t help but think religious life is life. Often we have problems entering new, established groups. Religious institutions are institutions are made up of people. We do have much to work on, however, I felt we made some strives after Vatican II. After reading your comments, I have some questions about the amount of progress we made.When a person enters a parish, he or she usually has adjustment problems. Members of a parish and a community are sinners. Living without a chaple can be a source of poverty. I’ve learned to appreciate the beauty of a church.
I just wanted to add that I love the sisters of the order I was in. There were many who were unhealthy, but I still love them. At this point, I don’t want to join that degree of unhealthiness and I am more free to love them outside the order (I can leave the unhealthiness). But I do love the sisters of the order and that was why I joined that order.
But the bigger reason I wouldn’t think of joining is because formation had no clue what to do with younger new members (and my minister told me that). And leadership had authority issues… and treated me like a child, micromanaged my life (even though the older candidates were not micromanaged). So formation and leadership are probably the ones who ruined it for the order. Maybe I could have gotten past the unhealthiness and bought into the love I felt for the Order had formation and leadership known what to do with me in formation.
But I also think the 50-60 age bracket is ruining a lot of orders too. They tend to be REALLY negative. And they tend to be the ones who treat me like a child. The senior sisters were the ones I loved. They had so much wisdom and I felt like an equal to the senior sisters.
Such an interesting and honest conversation.
I am a new member of an active religious community – a novice to be exact. I’m realizing that I am blessed in my experiences so far. While it has been more challenging than I had anticipated and the whole period of “formation” for a 35 year old woman is difficult to even ponder, on the whole I feel that I have been treated so far with respect as an adult with something to give to the community.
We pray together every day. Each local community determines whether that will be in the morning or evening, liturgy of the hours or the rosary or some other prayer, but the committment is to pray together. We are an active order, but our Constitutions say that action leads us to prayer just as prayer leads us to action. So far I have noticed this committment to personal and common prayer in most if not all of our Sisters. It is a big part of what pulls me to this life.
Also as a novice, I have been given the resources and time to ground myself in prayer. The ideal is 4 hours of personal prayer a day which is tough for me to be honest – I’m not drawn to a contemplative life. The hope though is that with this year of intensive prayer, we will develop a deep love and desire for it that we can bring to our more active life as vowed religious. Next year will be interesting as I spend more time in active ministry and in a “real” local community rather than the novitiate. The balance between being and doing will be a challenge I’m sure, but then it always will. As far as I can tell religious life is a lot about holding the tension.
I think the key to entering the process of religious formation is to be true to yourself. Honor your own integrity, honor the integrity of the community. Be open and honest with your needs and desires, in the spirit of obedience of course as it is lived out in your community.
Thanks, Susan, for sharing your experience. Your last paragraph seems to pivotal to me as someone who values integrity very highly. The bottom line for me is that I need to find whatever supports me as I try to live my life with integrity and step back from whatever robs me of my ability to live with integrity. I wouldn’t have entered religious life and stayed for so long if this life wasn’t working for me.
Hi, all. Coming to the conversation late, but it’s such a great conversation, I’d like to join. What ex-candidate shared is provocative and I think more universal than any of us in religious life would like to admit. (I could think of several people I have met who could echo various parts of the story related here.)
And as Sandy says, it’s so important to have the feedback and the opportunity to evaluate ourselves in dialogue with others who are experiencing our lives with their own age-appropriate perspectives.
When I entered in the mid-90s, there was only one other member in my community near me in age. And as a completely different personality type, we didn’t experience formation in the same way. I had two different formation directors and thus had two different types of formation – and they were dramatically different.
So, I had the experience (first) of being treated with adult respect and expectations and then (second) there being a LOT that the new director didn’t understand about working with young adults. We had to grapple with that stuff together. I was in my early 30s by this point, so had some sense of self – but the challenges ex-candidate mentions were also real for me. Ultimately, with the grace of God my director and I were able to grow into understanding one another better. She was a product of her formation and her times and I was a product of mine. Neither of us harbored ill-will towards the other, though it certainly could have looked like that.
I still say that I don’t understand what God was doing/showing/teaching me in the second year of my formation, but I’m more confident now that there was some reason I was there at that time. It was excruciatingly painful at times – but I was supported in many ways by lots of other sisters in the community.
I did, somehow, come away from that year with an ability to step back and look at the community with a wider perspective than my own life and my own formation.
What I have found is that as a community member I am challenged to live with authenticity and integrity. As a member of a community, I am often and regularly inspired by sisters in my congregation who truly live authentic, Christ-centered, prayerful and integrated lives…. so much more than I do. I also find at times that I am able to raise some questions related to this within my local living community (though in the interest of full disclosure I am, temporarily, living singly – while an “assigned but living elsewhere” member of my former local house,) and within the wider congregation.
Such interesting questions and such interesting responses. I’m so glad I found this thread. I hope the conversation (wherever it takes place) will continue.
Christine, thanks for keeping the conversation going. It really is an important conversation – both within our local communities and congregations and in dialogue with those among whom we serve.
Your response gave me an idea for another thread to start…check back in a couple of days…
[…] American women religious in the 21st century are a rather diverse lot. The ongoing conversation, “Where are all the young sisters?” has me wanting to open another can of […]
For 2 months I’ve been trying to think of how I was going to jump into this conversation–sorting through my own thoughts, feelings, etc…
Before I begin, let me just acknowledge that I’m not exactly sure from where I come. As a 32 year-old who has been in a Religious Congregation for 7 years, I don’t know whether or not I’m a “young” Sister. I know I started out as one. Whether or not I still am would depend on one’s perception.
“Where are the ‘young’ Sisters?”–now that’s a question!!
First, I like to believe that (unlike the 1930s, ’40s, ’50s) people today have many options to do ministry within the Church without being a priest/Brother/Sister. There was a time when only priests/Brothers/Sisters worked in parishes and Catholic schools. I imagine that some people who really felt called to ministry, but not necessarily to Religious Life tried it out anyway just to see if it would work. (A good motive, considering that there really were no other options to do ministry within the Church during that time.) Fortunately, today’s young adults don’t have to do that (except in the case of the priesthood, but that’s another story).
Second, society itself has changed. There was a time when it was normal for 18, 19, 20 year-olds to get married & start families, just as it was “normal” for them to enter a Religious Congregation or a seminary. Just as I wouldn’t advise an 18, 19, 20 year-old today to get married, I wouldn’t recommend that they enter a congregation or seminary at that age, either. (There’s a lot of developmental work–especially around dependence/independence/inter-dependence–that needs to happen around that age & I’m not sure that jumping from one’s parents’ house into a Motherhouse would facilitate that development.)
Thirdly (and regrettably), I do think that younger members can be perceived as a threat to a congregation, so I don’t know that some congregations are as assertive as they used to be when it comes to inviting younger members. To elaborate…younger members were born after Vatican II, so have no lived reality to tap into when Sisters start talking about “the changes” (in liturgy, community life, etc). To a younger member, “the changes” aren’t changes at all–they’ve always been there. Also, younger members were formed by Pope John Paul II & to some extent, the witness of Mother Teresa. Many younger members have experienced a World Youth Day and have been influenced/inspired by it. I believe that any time a new member is welcomed into a congregation, both the new member and the congregation are called to transformation. Unfortunately, the transformation on behalf of the congregation can look like a “step backward” to some members–especially in regards to what most newer members that I know would like to see in our congregations–a greater focus on community, a more simple lifestyle, etc.
The good news is that many congregations are experiencing an influx of new (and young) membership. For those congregations that aren’t, there are challenges that come with being “the only one under 50..or 60”, “a crowd/party/band of one”, etc within a congregation. Fortunately, when a peer group within the congregation is non-existant for a younger member, many congregations offer opportunities for younger members to connect with younger members of other congregations–either through Federations (Sisters of St. Joseph, Franciscans, etc.), or through RFC gatherings, or through an organization called Giving Voice.
Well, that’s my contribution. Better late than never, I suppose. I can only hope that my words helped the conversation more than my silence…
K,
Thanks! It was worth waiting for… I’d be interested in hearing more about why you think younger members can be perceived as a threat…
I have my own theory about this…our predecessors who brought our congregations through the changes after the Second Vatican Council were/are amazing, creative and passionate women. So much has been revolutionized in contemporary religious life (some would say not for the better).
So now those of us who have lived our entire religious life (and in your case, entire life) after all that transition come along and ask questions about why we do things a certain way, or suggest a new path. It might feel to some who were instrumental in the huge changes that we are threatening their “brainchild”. Of course they are comfortable with and invested in the way things are; after all, they were the architects of it all….
Now, that’s just a theory, and I might be way off on that. Maybe there are other theories…
This isn’t exactly on the topic, but there’s an interesting discussion going on at my friend Sr. Julie Viera’s blog on sisters, habit, and vocations… Check it out…
First, thanks for the reference to Sr. Julie’s blog. She offers some very insightful reflections/answers to questions/judgements that are being posed…
Hmmm…I’m trying to reflect on the question that you asked me…I don’t believe that newer members themselves are being perceived as threats–it’s the potential changes that they represent that may seem threatening.
I heard a speaker once say that “liberals are the new conservatives”–defining “conservative” as anyone who doesn’t want the status quo to change. I’ve been thinking about that a lot lately. Women Religious Congregations have done a great deal in regards to dreaming and working toward a more open Church, a more inclusive Church. This is a great gift. I guess I’m just wondering if we’re also allowing room among us for younger people who may or may not hold that particular work as such a high value.
K, I like that “liberals are the new conservatives” quote. I think that can be true in some instances…
I’m having a harder time figuring out what you mean by your last statement. Maybe I’m revealing myself to be one of those “conservatives”, but it’s hard for me to let go of the idea of a more inclusive Church. To many who feel excluded by the RC Church, whether because of clergy abuse, divorce/remarriage, birth control, homosexuality, etc… I feel a responsibility to be a welcoming and reconciling presence – kind of like it’s in my DNA, if you know what I mean…
Hmmmm…Let me think about how to say this…As long as I’ve been alive, divorce/remarriage has always been an “issue” in the Church, artificial contraception has always been an “issue” in the Church, homosexuality has always been an “issue” in the Church, equal participation for women has always been an “issue” in the Church, and, unfortunately, heirarchical hypocrisy has always been a reality in the Church (although the sheer magnitude of that one has only recently become known).
Friends my age have made choices around whether or not to use birth control (some do, some don’t), whether or not to practice homosexuality (some do, some don’t), whether or not to remarry after a divorce without an annulment (some did, some haven’t)–all the while continuing to participate within the Church (albeit, for those who choose against the “official” Church teacing, quietly).
I, too, long for a more open Church, a more inclusive Church, and a more accepting Church. It’s just that these aren’t new issues for me, nor are they something that only the Roman Catholic Church is struggling with (the Anglican Communion, for one, is near a break-up over some of these issues, and some congregations within the Presbyterian Church-USA have been split over the same issues).
I guess I just don’t feel a need to be on the cutting edge/front of these issues any more. Women Religious (I like to believe) have lead the way, and hopefully, everyone else will take over & carry it (I like to believe that’s already happening as well–with Call to Action, Women’s Ordination Conference, and most recently, Voices of the Faithful–as well as organizations that I’m forgetting right off hand.) I feel my call right now (and perhaps the call of Religious Congregations in general) is to somehow stand in the middle & hold both and/or all sides so that our Church doesn’t split into a million pieces.
Wow!!!! I would love to meet this 20K, 21K, etc woman! I think you hit the nail right on the head! WOW!
I remember sitting through meeting after meeting in my formation process that was pointless. I knew the things they were teaching. The problem was that the other women in formation were in their 50s and 60s so they were just learning things. I was in my mid 20s so things had always been that way so it was obvious. I used to joke that they taught God is loving and to me I knew that being young because I was taught about a loving God. While they had that angry God image because they grew up in a different culture of the Church.
I totally agree that those “new” issues for the sisters have been around all our life so they aren’t issues for us! The problem is that our issues are past their issues. I totally agree about the need for inclusiveness… for me, it’s about loving others even if they are homosexual, take birth control, etc. I think we need to begin to work together as Christians.
And the idea that both sides need to be transformed. But it is really hard to live daily being the only younger one while everyone else is mostly 60s an up. It’s easy to change one younger person and almost impossible to change the much larger group. So I think it is easier for the younger one to become repressed and lost in an order of older women.
And you have a very good point of someone entering right out of high school because of developmental issues. Especially now because the person is the lone young one in many of the orders… they don’t remember what a woman in her 20s acts like because there are none in their 20s, there haven’t been any young women enter for a while, they aren’t around young women anymore because they are retired and not teaching, and it’s been a long time since they were in their 20s! I found that the older sisters called me immature if I acted like I was in my mid 20s. But I am a mature mid 20 year old. But when the older sisters remembered stories of when they were younger, they realized I was like them developmentally.
There are also issues of prejudice that I found. If someone lost their glasses (or whatever), they would approach me and no one else in the community. It did feel like they were accusing me of stealing them. Then they’d find them right where they left them. No apology to me though. I’m not sure I can prove that though. But I did find some stereotypes put on me once in a while of the evil young person.
I can say that since I left the order it took me about a year to re-learn how to act my age. So it might be good that I wait until I’m a bit older. For now, I think it’s good I can act my age. I don’t think I could act my age in religious life because there was too much criticism when I did. It’s like I feel a call to religious life, but I feel a call to be a young adult too.
I thought your thoughts were right on! I’m glad to know someone else out there thinks like me… I know the sisters used to tell me that I shouldn’t look so much for what others think although I find now that young adult my age are looking for that affirmation in that stage of their development… maybe that I need that affirmation is another sign I’m not ready to enter religious life again!
Woops… I just realized the entries were numbered. I was agreeing with K… I thought she was a runner! 19K, 21K. Woops!
Since I don’t know blog etiquette, I’m going to take a chance on writing a note addressed to “Ex-Candidate from an Order”. It would be my preference to not have it be an open-letter, but since this is someone else’s blog, I don’t really have that option. (At least, I don’t think I do…)
Dear Ex-Candidate from an Order,
Thank you so much for your affirmation. I, too, sometimes feel like I’m the “lone young person” in a sea of Sisters 60 & up. Fortunately for me, I’m not the “lone” young person, but I am the youngest & have been for awhile…
I feel bad that you had such a hard experience in your former congregation. I do hope that you don’t give up on Religious Life as a result of that experience. While community life has certainly had its challenges for me, overall, I do find it extremely life-giving & rewarding. Every so often, I hit the “generational gap” & believe me, it hurts. However, by & large, I find the women in my congregation to be very open & welcoming, and honestly, quite inspirational in the way they learn/struggle to let go of what was & look into the future at what could be.
It sounds like you’re taking some much-needed time to “be yourself”. That’s a very healthy thing to do & I encourage you in that. It’s important that we try to find out who we are & who God is calling us to be. I’ve found that it’s not a question that goes away once one settles on a “vocation”–it only gets deeper, and it really helps to have that personal awareness & sense of rootedness that you seem to be looking for & hopefully discovering.
I wish you all the best & hold you in my prayers.
K
PS
Here’s a general question for you and for any other young adult out there who might be reading this…What does “acting one’s age” (as a young adult in the U.S.) look like in light of our Christian call to also be “counter-cultural”. (I do believe that we as Christians are called to be counter-cultural. Counter-consumerism, counter-materialism, counter-homophobia, counter-xenophobia, counter-“culture of death”/”culture of fear”, etc.) The various discussions on this blog has gotten me thinking about that question & I’m not sure of what the answer might be. Any insights?
Hi K,
What being our age means is a great question! I’ve also been thinking about that… I wish there was a way I could give you my e-mail without it being public… maybe nunsuch could assist us? I think she would be able to give you my e-mail which would be ok… I hesitate to put it on a public space because anyone can get info off the internet. And I don’t really want people to figure out which order I was associated with… I have found out from previous posts that others have had similar experiences as I since I was confused by one person for someone else in another order! So I think I’ve been keeping the order I was with anonymous.
I do think that is a great discussion for everyone because I would love to hear some input!
For me, I think what I missed about being a young adult was being able to be silly and doing random things. I don’t enjoy going out and drinking and partying so I agree with the we are supposed to be counter-culture thing as Christians. Partying and having fun is great. But I think many young adults abuse alcohol and I don’t think our culture recognizes that (in my opinion). I see that many adults my age have fun by getting drunk and that is not my idea of fun.
For me in religious life I missed doing silly things. Like playing games together, or silly chats. Just having fun.
I would say that I really enjoyed vocation type get together because it was with other young adults. So at vocation gatherings, we had things in common to share, we could be silly, we could play games, we could laugh at ourselves. I remember one time we went to the thrift store and ended up buying a silly stuffed animal, and we tried on silly clothes and took pictures. There were always a lot of inquirers, but no one who entered. So I was the “lone” young person who entered. And when I entered, I could no longer attend vocation gatherings. So I was with all older women.
I enjoyed the older sisters, but it was always older sisters. No balance. No one to share my experiences or struggles… or to act silly with so I had some stories to tell when I really am old!
I loved hearing the older sisters stories of when they were in formation and all the silly things they did together. But I don’t think I have any silly stories from my formation. It felt like my formation was sitting around the television with one of the sisters knitting in the chair next to me… little conversation… I guess that’s a community issue as well. I’m really not joking… television, knitting. There wasn’t energy.
I remember I used to be called immature when I acted silly so through formation eventually I didn’t act silly anymore. That was really sad and I should have never let that happen to myself. But I wanted to fit in with the order and I wanted religious life so badly, I think I was willing to bend and I ended up bending so much I forgot myself. Maybe that was a sign I was too young and not strong enough to stay who I was… but I also think it’s hard to have 120 old ladies and one 20-something me. But, after leaving, I am re-finding myself and who I was and how to act like a young adult one year later.
But yeah just going out and acting silly. I’m not sure how else to describe it.
I think a big part of me is being silly and having fun. So being able to be myself in an order would be something I would look for.
K…I’ll send you Ex-Candidate’s e-mail…I’d like to when I have a chance, read both of your contributions, but don’t really have time at the moment…
What an interesting conversation. (And a little worrisome as well…) I’m “young” and looking at a religious community. Although I love the sisters and relate well when it comes to issues in the church, spirituality, social justice, etc., I sometimes have a hard time relating otherwise. My spiritual journey has been very different from most of theirs, as they were all born before Vatican II, or in many cases joined the community before or around VII. Having lived alone for quite a while (and having experienced community, as well as having lived with others), I do have some concerns about community life with people who are around the same age as my grandparents. Even such trivial things as the fact that I’d rather watch Gilmore Girls or CSI and they’d rather watch the Golden Girls or Matlock on TV in the evenings. Or, the fact that I have to explain what MySpace is and why it, along with blogs, Facebook, etc. can be important for ministry to people who barely know how to check email. Like Ex-Candidate, I have no desire to wear a habit and praying the rosary and other devotionals daily is not particularly helpful for my spiritual life, so communities where I would have many peers generally are not very appealing. I also worry about the future of the Catholic church and the younger members who tend to be more closed to those who don’t “fit” the “model Catholic” ideal. Catholic means universal, and that is often forgotten. (I know my last statement shows that I have a hard time remembering it as well. There is a place for both the liberal and the conservative, but sometimes it is hard to live with, worship with, or be around the others!) Anyways, thanks for the lively discussion topic.
Welcome to the conversation! Perhaps some of the newer members will chime in here with their experience…it’s my observation that our newer members (especially those who are younger) are finding their peer groups beyond congregational boundaries, whether that be in programs like our CSSJ Federation Novitiate program, groups/gatherings like “Giving Voice”, or more localized inter-community groups that get together regularly for workshops, social, and other activities.
I believe that to the extent that our congregations bless and support our newer members in seeking out these peer groups, we will be successful in keeping them.
First thing I would like to say is I truly believe you are called to “religious life”. So I believe if you have that calling, you are not going to be happy living any other life. Sure you could work in parishes, or doing social work, which are wonderful ways to live the Gospel, but I don’t think it would fulfill you in the same way. I think you really need the younger Sisters and the older Sisters who are open to try new ideas, to brainstorm on solutions. But the communities themselves have to open up to the new images of nuns. The world has changed and we have to find a place for those women who like the changes, and also respect those who want more of a contemplative lifestyle. Look at the technological advances that this generation has developed, lets use all this knowledge. Have teleconferencing to hold meetings, to support one another. Look at how these blog sites help people, to understand one another and just have good conversations. Lets start to think outside the box. A lot of business no longer have large offices, most people are working from their homes, but they are still functioning. And then give some us 60+ year olds a break, some of us trying to keep up with changes. Even if it means I have to ask my 7-year granddaughter to help me with my computer.(ha)
Peace